Tim, the curator of LibraryThing, has a mega-post about tagging.  Tim compares the tagging systems of Amazon and LibraryThing and postulates why LibraryThing users have applied ten times the number of tags that Amazon users have, even though the number of LibraryThing users is so much smaller than Amazon users. Tim goes on to offer advice as to how to make an eCommerce tagging work (with a hint that perhaps it is not too late for Amazon can catch up if they can scrape together about $5.76)

Tim talks about the problem with 'opinion tags' especially when tagging is light. Tim points to the difference in tags for Ann Coulter's book 'Terrorism' - Amazon has user  tags like "craptacular," "evil" and "brain dead while LibraryThing's has tags like 20th century(1) 21st c.(1) america 1975-present(1) American History(1) cold war(2) commentary(2) Conservatism- I find it interesting that none of the LibraryThing tags are opinion based, while almost all of Amazon's tags are.  I think this may point more to a cultural difference between LibraryThing and Amazon's users.  Amazon has  a long history of cultivating  a culture of critique.  Amazon users are accustomed to and encouraged to offer their opinions about everything they see on Amazon.  Amazon's customers write reviews, they rate products, they make lists of products that they recommend. With this culture of critique it is not surprising that Amazon's tags are opinion-centered. LibraryThing, on the other hand, is more oriented toward people who want to organize their book collections.  With this culture of organization, we see tags that are more subject-oriented.  Amazon's tags are essentially one word reviews, while LibraryThings are one word descriptions.

Tim talks about why people tag without using the word selfish.  I think the best tagging systems (last.fm, delicious, and LibraryThing come to mind) work well because the prime motivation for tagging is a selfish one - people tag to organize their personal stuff (whether it is music, the web, or books).   A  system like last.fm or LibraryThing aggregates these thousands of selfish behaviors for the good of all.

It's clear from Tim's post that Tim spends a lot of time thinking about tagging.  I'm guessing that it is Tim's passion for tagging that is at the heart of the success of LibraryThing.  Tim is asking a lot of interesting questions about tagging - and he has the luxury of being able to try out his theories about tagging on a site with hundreds of thousands of users and millions and millions of tags  - that is a luxury that very few people have.

Comments:

I think the best tagging systems (last.fm, delicious, and LibraryThing come to mind) work well because the prime motivation for tagging is a selfish one - people tag to organize their personal stuff (whether it is music, the web, or books). A system like last.fm or LibraryThing aggregates these thousands of selfish behaviors for the good of all. But if the motivation is selfish, then won't the tags be selfish, too? That is not a value judgment. That is an operational caveat. What I mean is, if I am tagging something for my own personal (selfish) use, I am not going to use labels like 20th Century, American history, cold war, etc. I am going to use labels that are relevant to me. For example, when tagging my music collection, I tend to use tags like "high school" to label that subset of my collection that I was really into back then. Or "dance teaching" for those songs I used regularly when I was a ballroom dance instructor in Massachusetts. Or "Whatshername" for those songs that remind me of that ex. None of those selfish tags are going to be useful to anyone. It doesn't matter that Last.fm aggregates my tags into the whole; what I have produced is of little use to anyone. Ok, maybe there is another dance teacher out there, one that would agree with my labeling of the Beatles' "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" with the "dance instruction" label ("foxtrot" actually). But "high school"? And "whatshername"? These aren't just opinion tags. These are personal, selfish tags, tags that are specificly relevant to me, and to me alone. How does tagging overcome this sort of problem?

Posted by Jeremy P on February 20, 2007 at 09:40 PM EST #

paul-- i agree with you that the best tagging systems are selfish. and i hear you on delicious and library thing. but last.fm? please explain to me the "selfish" value of tagging on last.fm. on delicious and library thing you have explicit collections of "your" objects (bookmarks or books). i'm not seeing the equivalent on last.fm. but maybe i'm missing something. please help me out . . .

Posted by toby murdock on February 21, 2007 at 10:12 AM EST #

toby: You are right that tagging on last.fm is a bit different than LibraryThing. Typically, when you tag on last.fm you are listening to last.fm radio, not your own personal collection, so people are not tagging to organize their personal collections like they do on LibraryThing. But, people still tag quite often on last.fm, and I think that it is still a selfish tagging - people tag on last.fm to organize their listening.

Posted by Paul on February 21, 2007 at 01:09 PM EST #

Jeremy - It is really interesting to look at how people use tags - hundreds of thousands of last.fm users have tagged hundreds of thousands of tracks as 'rock' (for what purpose I don't know, 'cause we knew it was 'rock' didn't we?), Britney Spears has been tagged 'officially sh*t' 126 times (a hundred times less than Paris Hilton btw). The second most common tag on last.fm is 'seen live' - perhaps this tag doesn't say too much about the song or artist that is being tagged, (just like your 'highschool' tag), but it does say something about the tagger. With the 'seen live' tag, we now have a pretty good way to find similar taggers - and given a large enough body of taggers, some really interesting tags emerge - leading to all sorts of interesting possibilities ('lord of the rings' radio for instance).

Posted by Paul on February 21, 2007 at 01:33 PM EST #

I understand the excitement and impetus for wanting all these tags. And I would love to play with all this data, myself.

But I still need to hear a more convincing story told, something other than "really interesting tags emerge", with "all sorts of interesting possibilities". I am not saying this with any sort of criticism; I just really want to understand what we think really will emerge...or what has emerged already from tagging sites like Flickr. (I'm not exactly sure what you mean by LOTR radio.)

Because on the one hand, I share some of this optimism. Even for a very personal tag like "danceteaching", it could very well be that someone else finds my tag useful, and I therefore find someone else's tag useful. Given a large enough body of people using the tag "danceteaching", something interesting could come out.

But on the other hand, I do not share this optimism. When I think about a tag like danceteaching (or 'seen live' or whatever), that has so many different meanings. Are they talking about ballroom? Square dancing? Capoeira? Salsa? Hula? And even when they are talking about ballroom, do they mean foxtrot? Waltz? Tango, quickstep, rumba, cha cha, jive, etc? And even if they mean, say, "ballroom cha cha, breaking (in the international style) on 2, rather than in the American style on 1 (the music is indeed slightly different), what can I conclude from that? What user community can I create from that? I think about my 6-7 fellow dance instructors back in Massachusetts, all the people that would have labeled such a song with a "break on 2 international ballroom cha cha dance instruction" label, and then I think about the music in the rest of their collection. And I probably don't want to listen to much of it, if any. One guy likes country. One likes electronica. Another woman is into sappy ballads. So what community are we going to form around this "danceinstruction" tag?

I am totally positive about people trying to play with tags like this. I would love to, myself, if I had access to all this data. But ultimatly, I remain wary about what we (1) will actually accomplish, and (2) could actually accomplish. And how much data will we actually need, before something becomes truly useful?

Posted by Jeremy on February 21, 2007 at 05:08 PM EST #

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